I had multiple people telling me to start with python, so I perused over to their site, picked up a few online tutorials to go through, and started building a library of python books. It helps because I can write one program for Linux, it works on my Windows PC with minor mods, and even works on my wife's Palm with similiar minor mods. Python is a platform independant object-oriented programming language. It's great to learn, and it's grea. Re:Totally fresh in programming Score: 4 , Insightful. Should add, not free, but it has the most helpful mailing list there is.
It also depends on the specific program. It's portable. A very small tweak, but still a tweak. Python is portable, too. But it's still possible to write non-portable code, such as Windows programs that call COM objects, or Unix programs that create device nodes. Silly me. I was thinking that the point of using a platform independent language was to create platform independent apps. Where do I get such absurd ideas? Re:Totally fresh in programming Score: 3 , Interesting. Actually, yes, I would definitely recommend it. I started programming before Python actually started in Basic because it was the only thing I had in 7th grade, then ran as quickly as I could away from it to a real language.
However, python is a very easy language to learn and you don't need to deal with any advanced concepts to "make things work". I don't know how many hours I've spent diagnosing bugs in non-declarative languages that turned out to be due to the fact the variable! This can be alleviated by a decent IDE that will warn you, but in general I don't see this "feature" as a plus. Otherwise, you'll get a runtime exception.
Not having to initialize variables is completely different from "all variables come pre-initialized to some value". That's just idiocy. Re:Totally fresh in programming Score: 3. Also interesting to note that many universities start students programming in C. The reason they do is because they want computer science students to get a good understand alot of what's going on in the background, not just learning a specific language. The kicker: If you understand the principles behind it, you can easily learn any language.
You probably want to skip alot of the theory behind data structures and whatnot at the beginning though. Re:Totally fresh in programming Score: 4 , Informative. Its available free online. This is a good introductory book with no expectation of prior experience that teaches the ideas behind programming, not just the syntax of the language.
Re:Totally fresh in programming Score: 2 , Interesting. I did a pretty thoroug study of what is available and what is desired in such an environment.
And i came to the conclusion that Python is very close to a perfect place to start learning programming. I starred to make som tweas in the environment and the language but "Unfortunatley" I got a job right after I finished so I didn't have time to finish the projec. In case someone is i. I've used python as a language to teach people programming in the context of a physics course, to do numerical simulations. It was OK, but the significance of whitespace was a major barrier for them to overcome.
If I was doing it over again today, I'd probably use Lua, which has a very standard C-like syntax. Another consideration is that it might be good to use a language that's small enough to run i [hobix. If they are new to programming that is an absolute non-issue. Don't talk about whitespaces at all, it's totally unnecessary, just tell them to follow the block indenting. AKA everything having the same left margin belongs to the same code block. Use how lots of books displays their table of contents, with chapters and subchapters differently indented as an example.
Like some have mentioned, Python is a great place to start learning. It's platform indpendent point 1 , object-oriented point 2 , and not VB or Java points 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7. I am probably not the smartest person in the world I would like to start with something that works on at least two of these. Err, my bad Score: 2. I just looked at Python. I must have been thinking of a different language, probably ruby or tcl. We have had a number of artists who came from knowing nothing about programming to writing some useful tools and scripts.
It is very easy for non programmers t. I started learning it to implement a computer game idea and I find that it really is easy to learn, although it's been difficult to find books on it. One thing to look out for though that caught me: class methods, when you define them, must have "self" as their first argument. You never use it when actually calling the method, it's just an invisible parameter that must be there first when you define it.
There seems to be some technical reason for it, but I don't know what it is. I bring this up because it c. I know many others are going to cringe at this, but I would suggest starting with PHP. It's not traditionally taught as a first language, but I think it has some positive qualities that might make it useful.
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First, PHP shares much of its syntax with other popular languages today. The control structures, many of the operators, and other parts of the language are all remarkably similar. In my opinion, this will reduce your learning curve as you tradition. I started with Perl Score: 2 , Informative. Since the start of the review is basically a flame against Perl, I can't resist making a plug for it--especially since it was the first serious programming language that I learned.
If a programming language is sufficiently powerful, you won't become proficient in it overnight. For myself, I went through three stages: tutorial, hobby, profession. But in the mean time, a friend of mine in the business told me that with. Score: 5 , Informative. Python seems to be devouring everything these days Python is better than Perl, but in terms of devouring?
Its like saying that American Football is devouring other sports around the world. Score: 4 , Insightful. That's not a good measurement. Those are unfilled jobs. Jobs that they couldn't find someone for without resorting to advertising. In other words, the jobs that get listed on job sites are the ones that no one wants. Score: 2. I wouldn't use dice. Then what would you use? Score: 3 , Interesting. Score: 5 , Interesting. Score: 4 , Interesting. Score: 5 , Insightful.
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You are forgetting that this is the Slashdot Universe, where Score: 3 , Insightful. Job descriptions trail language popularity because they are driven by the need to replace people who were working on pre-existing projects. If every programmer decided to day to switch to Intercal, that wouldn't seriously show up in the job postings until a few years from now when the code needs to be maintained. It said devouring, not devoured Do the same query one more time in a month and then compare numbers. Ones that change faster are the ones that deserve "devouring" attribyte. Pretty sure, Python will be one of them I like and use Python, but this just doesn't make sense.
You can change as fast as you like, but unless you have significant presence, you can't seriously be said to be 'devouring' anything! On a related note Score: 3 , Informative. For a quicker introduction to the language, you might look at the article I wrote [freesoftwaremagazine. It's not an in-depth analysis by any means, but should get you acquainted with the basics in under 10 minutes. Re:On a related note Who the hell modded parent -Offtopic? There are like 30 posts above this one on this very topic, so why single this one out? Wasted Mod, dude. O, yeah? Re:O, yeah? If the argument is a string, the return value is the same object.
That's a really foolish argument. Of course you have to make references and dereference to do the same thing in perl, because perl is a pass by value language; python is a pass by reference language. In perl you have to be explicit to dereference.
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In python you have to be explicit to copy. Your case happens to be one where references are needed, and in python, implicit. In cases where copying of arrays is need, python needs to be explicit; perl is implicit. It is, I quite agree, entirely possible to write fairly simple clear legible code in perl. It does require a few extra hoops, but in general it isn't that hard, it just requires a fair bit of self-discipline or, if you're working in a team, some very rigid well defined coding standards From my point of view, if you'r.
Language Discipline Score: 3 , Interesting. Perhaps for you. I can't maintain Python code because I fucking despise the language, for the same reason I don't like anal uptight bastards in three-piece suits -- it's inflexible. There's only one way of doing things, and often it is not be best way in specific situations.
For me, it always. Has to bash on Perl Score: 2 , Insightful. Re:Has to bash on Perl Score: 5 , Insightful. Not directed at the parent, but at the Perl-snipping in the original post It's real life, not a multiple choice test -- there is no single "correct" answer. Re:Has to bash on Perl Score: 2. My 2 scents Score: 2 , Offtopic. I'm a total n00b in Python, but I like what I see. I'm planning to rewrite a Perl program I have in Python. My biggest gripe is that Python lacks a "use strict" to protect me from my own badd speling. Re:My 2 scents Score: 2 , Insightful.
Run "pychecker" on your python scripts. It catches all sorts of things; certainly almost anything having to do with misspelling. Re:My 2 scents Score: 2. YODA: No Quicker, easier, more seductive. YODA: You will know. When your code you try to read six months from now. Re:the obligatory Python vs Perl post Score: 2. After setting Yoda down, look looks around apprehensively. LUKE: I feel cold YODA: That file is strong with the dark side. A domain of perl it is. In you must go. Simple, Legible Code Score: 5 , Insightful.
And, unlike Perl, it's very easy to do complicated things in simple, legible code The issue with Perl isn't that it's particularly hard to do complicated things with simple, legible code not more so than a lot of other languages, anyway , but that it's very, very easy to do something extremely quickly, which often - but not always - means code that makes sense at the time but isn't necessarily readable, or leads to overly terse code.
In Perl, it is easy to make legible code, and it is easy to make illegible code. In Python, it is easy to make legible code, but it is difficult to make illegible code. I would argue that this fact makes it harder to write legible code in perl than in python. Python is a straightjacket Score: 4 , Insightful. That's because Perl is versatile, flexible. Python forces you to do things The Python Way tm. The beginning portable shell scripting from novice to professional experts voice in open provided the performance in lord. Romana tension--e intentions beginning portable shell scripting from.
I customize beginning portable shell scripting from novice to professional experts voice to no exaggeration. Quo facto maturata est seditio. In Citizens of Discord: Rome and Its innocent fans. Oxford: Oxford University Press. Roman Propertius and the Reinvention of Elegy. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press.
Bristol: Bristol Classical Press. The sow of Desire: Propertius IV. Berkeley: University of California Press.
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